RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device

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OverUnity Research > Benches > Peterae Public Bench (Moderator: Peterae) > RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device

2024-11-26, 23:22:57
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Author Topic: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device (Read 140172 times)

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #25 on: 2011-06-09, 11:12:05 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	weekend Unfortunately i move slower than a snail with my builds, i only get about 1 hour a day if i am lucky and maybe 1 or 2 evenings to work on it. Anyway i am still waiting for the rotor magnets which they put on back order and the hall sensors are shipped from Hong Kong So it will take me some time yet. I made another 3 coils this morning, and i ended up using 2 of my bearings in the rotor, i super glued these in nice and tight, then used a mini CD glued on top, this worked out well as it's hole was just the right size to give my nuts Clearence but enough overlap to hold the bearing in place also, so the bearing wont be coming loose any time soon. Here's the coils details without a core 2.85 Ohm Series resistance 52.08 Ohms impedance at 10kHz with a Q factor of 18.202 827.6 Micro Henrys inductance. I still need to also get my hands on an old computer psu and see if i can get one of the cores to map the B-H curve. PS i work weekends « Last Edit: 2011-06-09, 12:16:40 by Peterae »

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #26 on: 2011-06-09, 14:10:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Why build a Tachometer when they are soooo cheap So i have one on the way. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Digital-Laser-Photo-Tachometer-Non-Contact-Rpm-Measurer-/170619680138?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item27b9b9b58a

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #27 on: 2011-06-09, 14:19:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Oh no it's too late $:-\$ was it faulty or just a bad design?

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #28 on: 2011-06-09, 14:21:54 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Will do

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #29 on: 2011-06-09, 22:35:56 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-08, 22:02:05 WW I must say stretching it didn't occur to me I Will try measuring it's inductance tomorrow You don't have a wire stretcher? I have one sitting next to my copper magnet and box of carburetor bearings When you measure the inductance do it with and without the magnet

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #30 on: 2011-06-10, 21:48:33 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Quote When you measure the inductance do it with and without the magnet WW with or without a core, i am still trying to find a source of the correct cores The 2 drive coils are a different construction to the gen coils, the coil that's triggered from the rotor hall consists of 2 or 3 strands of much thicker wire, where as the driver coil that is triggered from the periphery magnets is single stranded thick wire, I think i remember him saying he got this from some monitor scan coil, well as far as i can remember they don't use multi strand, so he made this himself, i think it's fair to assume that both driver coils use the same wire and this would mean there are 2 or 3 times the turns for the single stranded coils.

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #31 on: 2011-06-11, 01:45:54 »
Group: Guest	Peterae, Without a ferrous core you won't see much difference in measurement. Maybe a few percent. I've been looking at chokes from SMPS's in my junk box.... I have quite a few. What is supposed to be the difference between a common ferrite rod from... say a radio antenna and a choke core from a PS? The only thing I can think of would be intended operating frequency. Maybe you could use common choke cores and run the motor at 300,000 RPM No, don't try that The chokes I have pulled from power supplies seem to be more like glass than ceramic. I also suspect they have a higher iron content. Do you have an actual description or type for these cores?

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #32 on: 2011-06-11, 06:27:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi WW One manufacturer said they used iron powder, and another said they were high saturation so i am not really sure, but if the use iron powder then that could maybe make a lot of difference.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #33 on: 2011-06-11, 10:43:52 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Wow loads of parcels coming in today I now have everything apart from cores. I built the driver pcb's and the driver coils, i used 2 strand 24 swg for 1 pair of driver coils, and single strand 24 swg for the other pair, the construction seems to fit quiet well with the closeup pictures of Romeros coils. I have glued the washers in place and have made 6 gen coils so far. Next up i will glue the magnets in place on the rotor and hook an led on the driver boards to see where each driver gets triggered.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #34 on: 2011-06-12, 08:41:52 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Rotor is now finished, electronics checks out. Using an led i have the halls working, i was surprised that the large magnets need to be within 3cm to trigger the hall. With my magnets south facing up, and the hall aligned over the south face so that it's switched off, i can confirm there is a strong North field between the magnets as the rotor spins it turns the hall on, like wise if i align the hall face to turn on at a south face it turns off in between the magnets. Some pictures of the build so far, Wow that multi strand wire i made is virtually impossible to solder cleanly ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device StillCap0016.jpg (82.92 kB, 800x640 - viewed 963 times.) RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device StillCap0017.jpg (77.59 kB, 800x640 - viewed 933 times.) RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device StillCap0018.jpg (70.39 kB, 800x640 - viewed 937 times.)

EMdevices	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #35 on: 2011-06-12, 09:36:47 »
Hero Member Posts: 805	Peterae, it looks very nice, you do good work. Is the rotor Plexiglas? If it is please be careful running it at high speeds because the disk can crack! I just did some rough calculations and it made me think twice about using Plexiglas for the rotor. I'm changing mine to other materials. I'll post the calculations on my bench. EM « Last Edit: 2011-06-12, 10:49:05 by EMdevices »

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #36 on: 2011-06-12, 10:38:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Hi EM Thanks for the advice, i made a thick barrier that drops around the periphery each time its spun up I suggest everyone think about doing the same, if you cast your minds back to playing on a roundabout as a kid and the seemingly difficult task of moving into the center as it spins at very low revs, it brings it home the forces that are involved but much much greater The magnets also will be carrying a lot of energy so make sure they are glued in place. « Last Edit: 2011-06-12, 11:12:59 by Peterae »

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #37 on: 2011-06-12, 16:28:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Peter, It will be interesting to see if you get the conventional Lenz drag effect when trying to load the generator coils. If there is a key, it is to bypass or mitigate the Lenz effect, and seemingly, this is what Romero has accomplished, even without the additional biasing magnets. The folks at OU call this "speed under load". If indeed anyone has achieved this, then they may well be close. Do we know if anyone has indeed achieved the so-called "speed under load"? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #38 on: 2011-06-12, 16:45:16 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	There will be plenty of tests to do, i have 4 moving iron meters, voltage and current for live monitoring of input and output parameters. I've not really had much time to follow all of whats going on at OU, so am not really sure if someone has posted a video of the increase under load, maybe EM or someone can answer that a bit better, i know they have been talking about tuning with caps and i had seen a video that did speed up under load with the cap added. Still a lot to do yet, i will glue the little hall magnets tonight, and do some wiring.

poynt99	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #39 on: 2011-06-12, 17:00:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	It may have been this video by keykhin: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5cdhOmwofI[/youtube] --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #40 on: 2011-06-12, 17:33:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Yeah that was the one, but not sure if they have done it with the motor config i am building, which for me is the key at the moment.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #41 on: 2011-06-13, 21:04:49 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Guys are we working in attraction or repulsion mode. The reason i ask is because i copied his coils by looking at the direction he wound the top and bottom coils, i then followed where the wires go and connected my coils exactly the same to the driver with my rotor magnets south pole up and testing the periphery driver under power i get clockwise rotation just as he does but the coils are working in repulsion mode not attraction. Now surely i have this correct having studied his connections and coil winding directions correct, just to prove this look at the periphery hall photo he supplied, the hall is slightly to the left of the driver coils and given he starts the rotor clockwise then it would not work if the mode was attraction with the hall on the left of the coils.

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #42 on: 2011-06-13, 21:40:40 »
Group: Guest	I suspect you are in attraction mode as the rotor magnet approaches the coil cores. Then, as the rotor magnet goes beyond the coil axis you will be in repulsion mode. Have you figured out how he accounts for a Hall-Effect looking at the edge of the rotor AND at the main rotor magnets? It looks to me like he has two sensors per drive coil. I know the second one isn't on the schematic.

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #43 on: 2011-06-13, 21:55:31 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Yes what i am getting is when the coils are off the rotor is attracted to the cores and as it passes it triggers the hall and repels it past. Not having cores yet i used 2 M6 bolts Not sure what your other comment means, there's 2 hall sensors, 1 that's triggered by the rotor magnets and one that's triggered by the periphery magnets. There's definitely not 2 halls per drive coil pair. Iver studdied the video many times.

BEP	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #44 on: 2011-06-14, 02:44:45 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-06-13, 21:55:31 Yes what i am getting is when the coils are off the rotor is attracted to the cores and as it passes it triggers the hall and repels it past. Not having cores yet i used 2 M6 bolts Not sure what your other comment means, there's 2 hall sensors, 1 that's triggered by the rotor magnets and one that's triggered by the periphery magnets. There's definitely not 2 halls per drive coil pair. Iver studdied the video many times. I see now. Why would one drive coil be triggered by a Hall_effect sensing the larger rotor magnets and the other drive coil triggered by a Hall_Effect monitoring the periphery? Never mind. I think it is time for a re-read.

Grumpy	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #45 on: 2011-06-14, 04:15:27 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Romero used two coils with Hall sensor as a motor and the other seven for collection. To me, this throws up a red flag. Do you really think you can drive with two and collect more with seven? Come on... Give me a freakin' break!!! Some people will sell the farm for 2:1 That issue aside, I expect rotation to be CCW to tap ambient aether rotation, and a static-electric-like field to develop between the magnets and coils, as the aether density is increased. I'd give 10:1 on a good day. If you want the "Full Montey" spinning around, you got the get all that crap out of the way. Spin the fluid not the mass. Whoopy doo... You were closer with the crackles, Peter. Damn close. (We always viewed those events from a different perspective...) You gents are pissing OU down the fuckin' drain. WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!! QUIT PISSING IN THE WIND!!! Spherics gave you 20 fuckin' years of research and development, 2 decades! and you throw it out with yesterday's news!

giantkiller	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #46 on: 2011-06-14, 04:47:07 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Yyyyyyyepppppp... Put another way: How is this device here going to achieve greater that 2k rpm without self destructing? It is either the addition of money or mass. Add mass and the whole device parameter changes due to greater losses. Add money to buy better materials and you'ld better know the operation parameters and meticulous design and object placement parameters before you cut any of the expensive materials. Then you have bearing issues and so on ad infinitum... The simplest fix was to add a flux window to sharpen the pulses cheaply which is the flux cutting solution. This would cut down the need for higher rpms. « Last Edit: 2011-06-14, 05:49:28 by giantkiller » --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

chrisC	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #47 on: 2011-06-14, 05:46:13 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-06-14, 04:15:27 Romero used two coils with Hall sensor as a motor and the other seven for collection. To me, this throws up a red flag. Do you really think you can drive with two and collect more with seven? Come on... Give me a freakin' break!!! ... The blind don't need to see. They are happy to believe light does not exist! cheers chrisC

duff	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #48 on: 2011-06-14, 07:44:59 »
Group: Guest	There is a top Hall sensor over the rotor magnets. Quote http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284787#msg284787 Reply #247 The 2 driving coils are running independently, not activating at the same time, that is what I need, to have the second coil activating when the other one is completely off Quote http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg284851#msg284851 Reply #291 Let's clarify some points regarding the sensors: not both of them are using the small magnets.I started originally with both using the small magnets to switch then I tried to move one to get max results. The second one is facing the big magnets from the top.This one from the top is activated after the magnet passed, the other one on the side of the rotor is activated like 1mm after the magnet passed the center coil. This is difficult to explain, testing yourself will get you there but do the testing separate not both of then at the same time. ------------------------ RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device IMG_0446.jpg (203.23 kB, 778x581 - viewed 962 times.)

Peterae	Re: RomeroUK Replication Muller Variant Device « Reply #49 on: 2011-06-14, 09:00:34 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	G Wake up, This device has been shown to work and is easy to build, we have the plans and circuits. If you are saying this is a fraud without first building it and understanding how it works then that is the wrong way, There is so much more going on when this motor rotates. Not sure what all the confusion is about, there are 2 coils per drive, 1 top , 1 bottom coil, these are in series and driven from a TIP42C which is triggered from a hall sensor. The are 2 of these circuits, 1 hall is triggered from periphery magnets, and also another which is triggered from the big rotor magnets.

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