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OverUnity Research > Motors > Muller Generator > Romerouk's Muller Replication
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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 510842 times)
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img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #350 on: 2011-05-28, 19:13:43 »

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Hi .99
Thanks for putting me right  O0

His post Reply 16 says
Quote
the coils are conencted in pairs, top with the bottom but when i am talking about coils I am refering to each individual one.
The current setup works with the driving coils in attraction to the magnets. I have originally tried in repulsion but this one works better.

and his diagram also makes this clear.
   
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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #351 on: 2011-05-28, 21:47:20 »

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These images were posted by Romerouk on OU
   
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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #352 on: 2011-05-28, 21:55:18 »

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Setting up procedure by Romerouk

Quote
Ultra important is to have the magnets spaced equally and the coils too.Failing in this arangement will cause system not to work properly. Leave the hall sensor to the ned to be able to find the right position and do it separately for each coil, not having both powered.
Initial tests must start with a load connected, at least a 5w but 10w will be better.
Don't connect all rectifiers togheter from the beginning, test and do the magnets adjustments individually.

I wish you luck.
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #353 on: 2011-06-01, 19:30:11 »

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Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011-05-22, 17:27:12
Of course "scalar fields" exist. Anything whose the intensity or amplitude in any point of space can be characterized by a simple numerical value, is a scalar field.

In didn't speak of "scalar field" but of "scalar wave", which is a magic incantation from FE gurus (see Bearden) for transforming a quasi-static electric or magnetic field into a wave, by misinterpreting what is a "near field" condition.


If a scalar field exists, then why can't you have a scalar wave in the scalar field?  A "scalar wave" is just a scalar field, with a different density than the ambiant scalar field, that is propagating or changing.  Since a scalar field affects energy density, then it may apear as particles that effect the charge of other particles, but they are not deflected by a magnetic field since a scalar field or wave has no charge.  That is all Tesla's Radiant Electric Effect is, by the way, induction by modification of energy density.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #354 on: 2011-06-04, 13:39:07 »
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Wattsup,

When you speak of the coil pairs being hit with both polarities of the magnet at the same time, 'the magnet' means the rotor magnet? 'Both polarities' then means you are also considering the stator magnets mounted on that coil?

If so, I see your description is not as incorrect as MH proclaims. There is a severe disconnect of visualization when you don't understand the difference between varying amplitude DC and AC, how a planar coil works and how biasing a coil core can effect operation when there is a passing magnet of opposite polarity.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time needed to force my learned offerings simply by repetition and volume.

I'm glad to see there is another seeing this motor as not being a common motor or generator. Don't change your direction due to other's opinions. Use results on the bench as your guide  :)

BTW:

The only way to induce a useful amount of current into a planar coil is to hit it with equal but opposing magnetic polarities. Lenz law still applies but Lenz was only partially correct. Such induction results in a net null magnetic force. I think you are on the right track with your description of connecting the inside wire of one coil with the outside wire of the next coil.

In any case, good luck with those experiments.


« Last Edit: 2011-06-04, 14:22:45 by WaveWatcher »
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #355 on: 2011-06-04, 19:01:53 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-04, 18:10:44
MH,
If you would like to help, here's a question.
Where can I find a good strong disk that is clear but does not shatter?  I just cracked one of my disks while drilling.  Actualy it's a question for anybody.

EM

Drilling almost any plastic sheet is best done this way:

1. Use a drill press. The slightest change in drill angle may cause uneven stress and cracking.
2. Avoid the use of the common twist drill. While these work just fine under the use of a skilled hand the chances of breakage is higher. Use a spade bit (very sharp one that is sharpened correctly) or hole saw for larger holes or a brad point for smaller holes.
3. The work piece must be fully supported by backing it with a solid piece of wood. No deflection, bending, shifting, etc. can be allowed.
4. Avoid drilling near the edges of the work piece. It is better to drill the holes before cutting the outer edge.

The speed of the drill and applied force is also important.

The best thing I've used is a spiral plunge saw bit in a router using jigs & guides.
   
img  chrisC
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #356 on: 2011-06-04, 19:50:23 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-04, 18:10:44
MH,
If you would like to help, here's a question.
Where can I find a good strong disk that is clear but does not shatter?  I just cracked one of my disks while drilling.  Actualy it's a question for anybody.

EM

EM:

I had forgotten to warn people using the acrylic disks (Tab Plastics) that when you drill a hole size appreciably larger than 1/16 inch, you need to drill several times, each with a bit size increasingly larger until the desired hole size is finished, otherwise you'll likely to end up with broken plates!

But if you did  it as I suggested, the plates are very solid and I've my rotor running quite well with the VCR bearings/base and I've also found out what Romero said about tuning the coils  via magnet/washer combinations is so very true! I'm just now 'tuned' a coil combination (one drive, one pickup) to 13V from 12V supply running around 870RPM. Time for  more experimenting.

cheers
chrisC
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #357 on: 2011-06-04, 20:21:10 »

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EM
Sorry to hear that, can i ask what you are currently using to drill the hole so i don't make the same mistake.
I tried a 18mm normal drill bit but no go because the angle was all wrong, went on to try spade wood bit and this worked, these were dummy tests on an old bit of perspex, i am now waiting for the correct size bits before i can continue.

EDIT Just occurred to me there maybe middle ground where the thing shatters at high rev's i suggest everyone builds a shield around it

MH
Do you think that the relay thin wire would carry 1 amp OK? I am not sure what the AWG is otherwise i could have looked it up

« Last Edit: 2011-06-04, 20:50:34 by Peterae »
   
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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #358 on: 2011-06-06, 04:31:57 »

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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-04, 18:10:44
MH,
If you would like to help, here's a question.
Where can I find a good strong disk that is clear but does not shatter?  I just cracked one of my disks while drilling.  Actualy it's a question for anybody.

EM


use a high speed drill motor so that the drill melts through the plastic, break off the melted edge when it cools
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #359 on: 2011-06-06, 05:29:02 »
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EM,

Having an axis controller blown out this weekend on my DIY CNC forced me to rethink(remember) drilling Lexan by hand. (No, I'm not currently building a motor replication)

chrisC had the best advice. Use a small pilot hole and increase the diameters in steps. If the hole diameter is less than twice the thickness you should be able to drill the hole without stepping up in diameters. A pilot hole is a safe bet in any case.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #360 on: 2011-06-06, 16:23:34 »
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@Wavewatcher
Quote
The other current problem is the use of generalizations.

-All working motors work this way therefore your working motor works the same way. Since there is more than one way for a motor to work I wonder about this statement.

-Lenz's Law applies to all coils because coil geometry doesn't matter.

-Kirchoff's voltage law applies to all circuits because all completed circuits are the same

-Any ideas outside of my understanding is esoteric and questionable

I would agree with you that the statements above are silly and do not imply a deep understanding of anything. Rather than believe everything we are told I like to seek the limitations of the things we think are written in stone at which point we usually find they are not. Here are some examples---

Quote
-All working motors work this way therefore your working motor works the same way
Wrong, I have built motors which cannot act as generators, that is at no point will the spinning rotor magnet induce a voltage in the coils of my motor forcing it to act as a generator therefore I know as a fact this statement is false. We should remember that in order to understand the limitations of something we have to actively seek ways to exceed the known boundaries, for me my initial intent was to produce a pure motor with no generator action and this is what I did.

Quote
-Lenz's Law applies to all coils because coil geometry doesn't matter.

Wrong, Lenz Law relies solely on the fact that a current must be induced in the coil which produces a magnetic field in opposition to the changing magnetic field which induced it. This means the current must flow in a direction parallel to the conductors otherwise Lenz Law cannot apply, that is if there are two conductors wound parallel to one another (Bifiliar) as a coil and the conductors act as plates of a capacitor then the current is not parallel to the conductors but at right angles to it. This is true because the current in a parallel plate capacitor acts inward in "all" directions summing to zero as a regional gradient thus no Lenz Law. I told Milehigh this a long time ago yet he continues to ingnore it because I believe he has no explanation for why or how Lenz Law fails in my opinion.

Quote
-Kirchoff's voltage law applies to all circuits because all completed circuits are the same
I think the Wikipedia definition will suffice-
Quote
This is a simplification of Faraday's law of induction for the special case where there is no fluctuating magnetic field linking the closed loop. Therefore, it practically suffices for explaining circuits containing only resistors and capacitors.

Quote
-Any ideas outside of my understanding is esoteric and questionable
Ah the human Ego can be a strange thing and I have often wondered what would justify a persons belief that they could never be wrong or that everyone else must be somehow misinformed or misguided. I learned a little secret a long time ago which has helped me in more ways than I could mention---- I always presume I am wrong in my thoughts. When we do this we must always seek alternative answers and we must always test what we think we know therefore there are no "right" answers there are only temporary answers related to the level of understanding we have at the time. As such I know I'm wrong about most everything on some level and I have no need to compete with anyone here as I intend to prove myself wrong first and foremost, that is my goal -- to prove myself wrong. This relates to a statement made by Victor Schauberger---- Do the opposite of what we do today.
Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2011-06-06, 18:01:52 by allcanadian »


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img  giantkiller
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #361 on: 2011-06-06, 17:11:29 »

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Quote from: allcanadian on 2011-06-06, 16:23:34
This relates to a statement made by Victor Schauberger---- Do the opposite of what we do today.

To do the same thing over and over and expect change is insanity. The ones who make change are considered crazy. Sounds like the slow train to progress is a trip of insanity.


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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #362 on: 2011-06-06, 19:06:21 »

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The first page of this thread has everything needed to dispell this build.
I had posted a simple fix to attain better results but got slammed because the idea was replication.

The model of involvement that this thread shows is ad nauseum, ad infinitum. The paradox if 'If you want it then find it yourself' with 'Come on in, the waters fine' with 'I told you so'. Camaraderie  to a fault.

Tis an easy thing to fall into. Even me with these party quotes. That puts me in the group 'I told ya so'.

Silly humans....


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img  teslaalset
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #363 on: 2011-06-06, 21:55:15 »
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FYI, I started a 3D Ansys Maxwell simulation thread at OU:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10841.0

I basically confirmed by simulation that it is possible to adjust the bias magnets such that no overal drag caused by BEMF occurs.
Using that and minimize other losses, like eddy currents, skin effects in coil wires, air friction etc could result in the desired situation.
I will do some calculation of the consumed energy by the driving coils versus the energy generated by the generator coils to give a good impression about the simulated figures to point out there is any OU potential.
   
img  chrisC
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #364 on: 2011-06-06, 22:29:01 »
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Quote from: DeepCut on 2011-06-06, 22:22:23
Hi Chris,

do you have links to those two posts please ?


Thanks,

Gary.


It's todays posting, reproduced here:

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #2569 on: Today at 06:42:31 PM »
Quote
Well done @minoly, can you confirm for all others that the speed goes beyond the normal speed without the coil in place?
Hopefully now people will pay more attention to what I said many times before. I have never lied and I made statments only confirmed by myself during my experiments.
I have mentioned the Kromrey effect few times before but it was ignored because for some people this is too simple to be true and work.
As you all can see it works, and when you will understand more about it you will manage to do this much more easy.
I wonder why for all this time nobody ever managed to see this effect except Thane , but that in my opinion is a little bit different.
Why Muller's daughter continues her father work if there is no benefit?
This was my question when I decided to go for this Muller setup.

Best Regards,
Romero

cheers
chrisC

oh, Rod's posting shows those nice waveforms:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7982-muller-generator-replication-romerouk-15.html#post143274
   
img  Peterae
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #365 on: 2011-06-07, 07:37:14 »

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I see RomeroUK has posted again yesterday

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg289680#msg289680

I am here not to give you any info or directions regarding the Muller device, that is not going to be anymore but I am seeing a lot of people spending a lot of time and money thinking that just looking at my device is enough to make a 100% replication.
I hate to see people spending money on something they don't understand completely.

Most of the time is not what you see, is not in front of your eyes it is a bit more than that.

My advice to all of you is to stop working on the Muller device and just play with a simple rotor and 2 coils, one driving and one for collecting. When you will make that to speed under load or shorted then you can apply that to different even more simpler setups.

I know that most of you will say that the speed up will bring the rotor to the original speed where we don’t have the collector coil in place and there is no gain. Try and measure the speed before adding the collector coil then do the same when you shorted the coil. I think that is easy enough.

If you cannot get this effect then you will not be able to get to the next step and better stop before wasting any more time and money. My Muller device had a little bit from all of my discoveries during many years of building and testing and most of the time I failed in getting my goal but every time I have learned a bit more.

This arrangement is a complicated one and requires thousands of adjustments but it can be built in simpler ways.
 
Lately I have tried different toy size arrangements and I will build a total different type hopping that I am not going to upset anyone now.

I’ve got all the parts I have ordered before, thinking to get a bigger size Muller device and I will use them towards a different concept, nothing related to Muller idea.

Now again, I hope people will think many times before starting any project then decide what to do and please do not take my devices or ideas like an invitation to replicate, that is your decision, don’t blame me if you fail, we are all the same but still, not all can play football but we like to try and maybe we will learn.

Best Regards to all,
Romero

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg289791#msg289791

Well done @minoly, can you confirm for all others that the speed goes beyond the normal speed without the coil in place?
Hopefully now people will pay more attention to what I said many times before. I have never lied and I made statments only confirmed by myself during my experiments.
I have mentioned the Kromrey effect few times before but it was ignored because for some people this is too simple to be true and work.
As you all can see it works, and when you will understand more about it you will manage to do this much more easy.
I wonder why for all this time nobody ever managed to see this effect except Thane , but that in my opinion is a little bit different.
Why Muller's daughter continues her father work if there is no benefit?
This was my question when I decided to go for this Muller setup.

Best Regards,
Romero
« Last Edit: 2011-06-07, 13:22:04 by Peterae »
   
img  teslaalset
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #366 on: 2011-06-07, 09:00:14 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-06-06, 23:39:41

I'm glad to hear that Teslaalset,  since I suspected from the begining that that's what the biasing magnets were doing.  If you have any pretty diagrams or graphs feel free to paste over here as well ( I can access the OU site only from home.)  I'm specificaly interested in the B-H curve traversal as the magnet approches and departs.   The B-H curve should be ploted for the magnets and for the ferrite rod, and hopefully Maxwell will let you do that.

EM

B-H of the ferrites and magnets are defined in the material list I used. Nothing special.
The ferrite B-H curve was copied from a manufacturer data sheet.
I use 3C90 material, but anything is possible with Maxwell, I can even create materials that in practice do not exist yet.

By plotting the flux densities of the ferrites during normal operation I can indicate what part of the B-H curve is used during normal operation of the rig.
I will be able to generate all that, but I will do some optimalization first on the total rig model.
Once I have found the optimum magnet and rotor distance allignment, I can post those details.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #367 on: 2011-06-07, 13:55:50 »
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@All
Here are a few laws which may supercede the almighty Lenz Law.

Clarke's three laws:
 1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
 2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
 3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur.C.Clarke

Regards
AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #368 on: 2011-06-07, 15:10:17 »

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Quote from: RomeroUK on 2011-06-07, 07:37:14
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3842.msg289791#msg289791

I have mentioned the Kromrey effect few times before but it was ignored because for some people this is too simple to be true and work.

This is a 46 meg pdf of a book on the Bedini's work with the Kromrey and Brandt Style Tesla Converters:
(With comments by Tom Bearden...)

http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/Mueller.pdf
   
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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #369 on: 2011-06-07, 15:14:24 »

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Thanks EM

Quote
Peter,  I was just holding down the disk with my hand and using a hand drill,   I did have a small pilot hole drilled,  but then I jumped up directly to the correct diameter drill and it jamed and spun my disk an hit a nearby box, and the stress on the drill hole cracked it.   Oh well, lesson learned.

I will make sure i don't try that one, i was tempted the other day, Tonight maybe the night i find out my flat wood bits arrived, i guess at least i have 2 discs so if one goes tit's up hopefully i will be able to have another go.

The important thing is to not lose any limbs in the process   8)
   
img  muDped
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #370 on: 2011-06-08, 05:49:16 »

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Yes, the Worldwide Web, the Internet and this Forum are
each sets of the Stage that is our terra firma.

We are all actors playing out roles to satisfy our needs.

Some very energetically and dramatically.  Others more sedately.

Some with honest and sincere intent.  Others who wish to deceive.

Some very skillfully and craftily.  Others with less polish and suavity.

In spite of this (or because of this) there is progress being made in
unraveling the mysteries behind the RomeroUK device and the Muller
Generator.

Some remarkable results with the "coil shorting" technique.

There may yet be a happy ending to this saga.  Or beginning...

We are staying tuned.


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For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #371 on: 2011-06-08, 15:11:34 »

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What comes off the paper and what hits the concrete are 2 different things. And that is when what hits the rotary oscillator.


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img  giantkiller
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #372 on: 2011-06-09, 12:33:41 »

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Back to the future now for a quick moment then we can return to the farside:

How about placing an aluminum sheet or plate with holes between the magnets and coils where the holes line up with the coils. This would give an aperture for the flux to pop through or appear for a shorter moment of passing? Start with small holes then widen them.


Ok, back to the group hug. Wouldn't this make it 2 steps back with my 1 step forward? Dosie doe.


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Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #373 on: 2011-06-09, 17:01:32 »

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I didn't mean you personally, just the reps i have seen so far including Zero Fossil Fuel

Clanzer does some amazing stuff indeed, but most have different coils, rotor magnet counts, a true rep should be as close as possible

Most are using ferrite rod, the cores that Romero used may not be straight ferrite from the data i have seen the core in the choke is a high saturation beast, theres so much in the detail that can break a replication until the method of operation is understood.
   
img  BEP
Re: Romerouk's Muller Replication « Reply #374 on: 2011-06-09, 18:15:54 »
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GK,
Don't you think adding an aluminum plate will change it from a motor to an Eddy brake?
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