Tuneable Large Signal Reciever

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Room3327

Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « on: 2010-06-10, 19:27:40 »

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Hi everyone,
I have a new idea I should share with all of you. In order not to impede the very good work and ideas of others I have decided to call this something different, it will become apparent what devices it is similar to very soon. I am working on building a prototype as I write this so I do not yet know if the idea works. I will document it here.

This idea does not change physics or bring into the picture exotic things such as zero point or reactive energy. There is a source for the energy that can be named.
What I am proposing is a method of CONVERTING an existing energy source into USABLE electricity. Using common electronics, no 'Magic' tricks and standard physics I believe we can tap this energy source. In order to differentiate what I am doing and what others are doing I am calling this a Large Signal Receiver or LSR.

The source I am proposing to use is Schuman Resonance, the approximately 8 Hz signal that covers the earth. This signal is created by the wave guide characteristics of the space between the earths surface and the ionosphere. The space is just right to allow a 8 Hz resonance wave to form in it. That could be a lot of energy just hanging around all day and night waiting to be used by someone.

(Signal strength has been measured at about 300 uv/meter. I'm not sure if it is usable or not? Not as much energy as I thought. )

The idea is to use two frequencies and beat them together to create two other frequencies. A beat frequency of of their sum and difference. If I use a 1st freq. like 2000 Hz and a second freq. of 2008 Hz I will get beat frequencies of 8 Hz and 4008 Hz, very much like a radio receiver. In this case I am trying to build a receiver of Schuman resonance signals but I could just as easily tune this receiver to 60 Hz if so desired. That would work well under power lines but not so well for airplanes.

In this device, unlike a radio, the signal being tuned into is also the power feed. No laws of physics to be broken here, just harvesting available energy.

I believe this gets my idea across so I will leave it here for now. To be continued.

Room3327

Edit: Added line in parentheses above.

« Last Edit: 2011-06-05, 19:56:52 by Room3327 »

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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

poynt99

Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #1 on: 2010-06-10, 20:01:42 »

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...

There is a huge potential difference between the ionosphere and ground, but the question is, does voltage equate to power?

I would suggest that unless one can place a huge conductive plate up in the ionosphere, it will be difficult to extract much power. This of course excludes lightning storms.

Apart from this, I'm not clear on how you propose to receive 8Hz? A radio receiver uses heterodyning to mix down a carrier, where the carrier frequency is >> than the frequency of interest. Perhaps you could elaborate a little in your next post

.99

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"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #2 on: 2010-06-10, 20:30:38 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Hi .99 Why would voltage not equate to power? I guess I don't get that question. If that voltage is stepped down to usable levels the current goes up. I don't know what you mean there. I think there are other ways to extract energy from Schuman resonance then just plates up in the ionosphere and that is exactly what I am working on and will be talking about in the future. I plan on doing it by using almost every trick I know in electronics but hay I'm not a wizard and I may fail but I bring a fresh idea to OUR forum that may or may not go somewhere. I'm just trying like everyone else to find an answer. But I will be posting a lot more soon. Room --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

szaxx

Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #3 on: 2010-06-10, 21:17:09 »

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Posts: 276

Great idea room, I wonder if there is some kind of vortex generator in this one? Lightning becomes your enemy so we will soon see whats up your sleeve on this.
Besr of luck, Steve.

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #4 on: 2010-06-10, 22:30:48 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Hi szaxx, Thanks for the encouragement. What I plan on doing to start with is use a toroidal and solenoid wound multi-coil device which will be fed two frequencies. Each frequency will be a 2 phase signal that will cause a rotating NS polarity in the device. The two signals will counter rotate canceling each other out except for the 8 HZ frequency and 4008 Hz as per the example above. 2 KHz is arbitrary, In tuning it I plan on finding a nice resonant point with the first frequency then adding the second frequency. Now this 8 Hz beat freq. is coupled to the output or collector windings (solenoidal) turning the collector into a powered antenna at 8 Hz if the phasing is off between the two the 8 Hz Schuman resonance should be pulled into the collector coils as if it had a huge effective aperture. Keeping the collector coils short should be like a stepdown transformer to it and only allow or provide a lower voltage at a greater current. This is my basic concept on this device, but there are probably many other ways to realize the same objective just like there are many ways to build radio circuits. I am sorry it is not real simple and may not be able to be constructed by just anybody if it even works, but I think anyone here or most here should be able to handle it if it pans out. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

MileHigh

Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #5 on: 2010-06-10, 23:18:24 »

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Room3327:

I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding about the Schuman resonance. It is a resonant cavity between the surface of the Earth and the ionosphere. That does not mean that there is automatically a source of energy there though. What it means is that if you generate an 8 Hz broadcast signal the Schuman resonant cavity will start to resonate and store the 8 Hz excitation energy. Most likely within a few tens of seconds or less the energy that you pump into the cavity will decay almost to zero. That's because the cavity is lossy, it does not store the energy that you pump into it indefinitely.

It's an interesting property of the Earth system.

Here is a similar thought: Tesla's Wardenclyffe Tower is often referred to as the system for delivering high power through the air so anybody can access it. Suppose that's true, and you could set up an antenna anywhere and power your TV, etc.

The follow-on thought that nobody seems to discuss is okay, now we have to build coal/oil/nuke power plants to feed the power into Wardenclyffe Tower in order to broadcast all of that energy to the people. So if you want to power the world, what do you do, build 500 massive power plants around the tower?

Just some food for thought!

MileHigh

« Last Edit: 2010-06-11, 01:00:23 by MileHigh »

szaxx	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #6 on: 2010-06-11, 00:09:03 »
Sr. Member Posts: 276	Hi Room, MH has a point, hopefully theres enough noise inherent for a useful result. You are aware of the D,E F1 and F2 layers in the ionosphere? If they are active the height of each is different and the cavity formed may require your device to be tunable. I can assume the solenoids will be quite large and resonant, are these to be tuned to the shuman freq? If you're not familiar with the magnetic loop antenna then it may be worth a looking at, this may help as the magnetic part of an EMF wave is pronounced more at low freq's. Hopefully helpful to you with your build. ionospherics link, http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/qsl-propa2.htm magnetic loop link, http://www.magneticloopantenna.com/ Cheers Steve.

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #7 on: 2010-06-11, 05:14:41 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Well thats interesting MH, but as far as I know Schuman resonance is always there, how did Schuman measure it? I thought this 8 Hz frequency of the earth was getting to be well known especially since it has been linked to alpha brain waves and other things. Why do I keep hearing about Schuman resonance if I have to create it or beam it into the atmosphere. It wouldn't be Schuman resonance at all if you have to provide it. What you say makes no sense to me. But that don't mean I'm right if there is no Schuman resonance then they really got me good. If that is the case then I guess I only have 60 HZ power lines to tap for energy. Or maybe I should just forget this altogether, another bad idea. Or is it? Should I keep going or give up already you tell me? $:-\$ Thanks for the info szaxx I will read when I get a chance. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

poynt99	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #8 on: 2010-06-11, 12:35:41 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3216 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Keep pursuing the idea Room. MH and I are simply pointing out some things that may or may not be obvious. Of course SR exists. There is no disputing that. The difficulty lays in how or if it is possible to extract any energy from it. Are you proposing an energy-sucking antenna of sorts? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #9 on: 2010-06-11, 17:51:48 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Hi poynt, Basically yes an energy sucking antenna is pretty much what I am proposing, I think it may be a little more complicated then that but that is the basic idea. And I thought using some radio techniques might help us get there. Remember I don't have all the answers to this so I am open to help but a lot of the obvious stuff I already know, I am not an amateur. Quote The difficulty lays in how or if it is possible to extract any energy from it. This is the question and what I am working on. Part of what brought me to this idea was working with my Agentgates coil, at certain frequencies with it I found large signals on the output coil at 8 Hz, 60 Hz and about 200 HZ? I could see them on the scope, that started me thinking about pulling these freq.s in with something like a radio type circuit. Wether it will work or not that is another question, but I won't know if I don't try. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

poynt99	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #10 on: 2010-06-11, 18:41:12 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3216 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Room3327 on 2010-06-11, 17:51:48 Wether it will work or not that is another question, but I won't know if I don't try. Indeed. Let's see where it goes .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

giantkiller

Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #11 on: 2010-06-11, 19:40:00 »

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Frequency equals matter...

Howdy,
in reading ESA doco the section that really drove this concept home was the paragraph:
Ears as antisound-emitters
and that is just doesn't happen with the ears but other parts of the body at different frequencies. The blood coursing through our veins creates a thumping beat freat frequency on its own or base. It seems that hearing is the reflection or interference on the waves transmitted by the outer edge of our ear cartilage.
And such http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_Anchored_Hearing_Aid the skull vibrates.

Fascinating.

Also in the myoelectric sensors I used on the prosthetic hand injected a signal into the skin and flesh. Then listened for that signal coming back mixed with noise and reflection to measure and signify the muscle flexation and extension. The echo / signal strenth was then converted to 0 - +5 volts and used to drive motors.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010-06-11, 12:35:41

Keep pursuing the idea Room. MH and I are simply pointing out some things that may or may not be obvious.

Of course SR exists. There is no disputing that. The difficulty lays in how or if it is possible to extract any energy from it.

Are you proposing an energy-sucking antenna of sorts?

.99

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http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

Grumpy

Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #12 on: 2010-06-11, 19:52:23 »

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tExB=qr

Do we have to pull energy in from around us when it already everywhere?

Do I need huge generators to send a non-particulate signal to a distant location and then convert it to conduction current?

I don't buy it.

What is current in the first place and how might we produce it with the least expenditure of energy?

giantkiller	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #13 on: 2010-06-11, 20:02:02 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1593 Frequency equals matter...	Well instead of moving electrons great distances we can produce a potental kinetically by moving an electron into the next one. Isn't this what electrostatics does? --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

Grumpy	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #14 on: 2010-06-11, 20:14:20 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: giantkiller on 2010-06-11, 20:02:02 Well instead of moving electrons great distances we can produce a potental kinetically by moving an electron into the next one. Isn't this what electrostatics does? Why don't we just create the necessary conditions and let nature do the rest for us. That is the lesson of the TPU. You don't have to pull energy in, just tell it to move in a subtle way.

MileHigh	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #15 on: 2010-06-11, 22:40:47 »
Group: Guest	About the SR: A tuning fork is a mechanical LC resonator. A tuning fork that produces middle C, 440 Hz, can be held in your hand. Make the tuning fork big enough and it will resonate at 8 Hz. You have to strike the tuning fork and put energy into it to get the "ball rolling" so to speak. Now, if you bring your middle C tuning fork close to a beer bottle, and experiment with the level of water (or beer!) in the beer bottle, eventually the beer bottle can be tuned to middle C. The beer bottle is a resonant air cavity. It has inherent LC characteristics that tune the resonant air cavity to a given frequency. Change the level of water in the beer bottle and you are changing the "L" and thus changing the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity. Now think of a breadbox made of metal. The inside of the breadbox is also an electromagnetic resonant cavity. You can set up very high frequency electromagnetic wave to resonate inside the resonant cavity. The resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is determined by the dimensions of the breadbox. The bigger the breadbox the lower the resonant frequency. You have to have an external power source powering an antenna to set up resonating electromagnetic waves inside the breadbox. A fraction of a second after you switch off the power to the transmitting antenna the resonating electromagnetic waves inside the breadbox disappear because the breadbox cavity is lossy. So the Earth's Schuman resonance is akin to a giant breadbox with metal sides where the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is about 8 Hz. It is simply "available to resonate." If there is no power source it doesn't do anything. There is a kind of "Cult of Personality" about the Schuman resonance. Perhaps I shed a bit of light on it. MileHigh I almost forgot: Almost certainly the frequency of the Earth's Schuman resonance was calculated on paper. It's all based on the speed of light and the geometry and the dimensions of the cavity, which is spherical in shape. Subsequently it was probably measured by someone to confirm its existence. Every now and then there is probably a big enough bolt of lightning to excite the SR and measure it's frequency. There is nothing to get excited about here though. You know that only a minuscule proportion of the energy in the lightning bolt could excite the SR. Then with very sensitive listening apparatus you could probably pick up the resonance. You have to remember that the entire surface of the Earth is being struck by lightning at about 1 KHz and any SR excitation energy available will tend to cancel itself because the lightning bolts are not in sync, they are random. Hence my reasoning about an occasional lightning bolt that stands out in the crowd. I read once that about one in a million lightning bolts is a "positive giant" that goes the other way.

poynt99	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #16 on: 2010-06-11, 22:50:48 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3216 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-06-11, 22:40:47 About the SR: So the Earth's Schuman resonance is akin to a giant breadbox with metal sides where the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is about 8 Hz. It is simply "available to resonate." If there is no power source it doesn't do anything. MileHigh Indeed, however, I think Room is looking at this from the perspective that there is energy going in to excite the SR, and this energy comes from the multitude of constant lightning strikes occurring around the globe. The trick is to somehow tune in to this excitation at a distance and concentrate it to a lower voltage/higher current. I think it's quite a challenge. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #17 on: 2010-06-11, 23:46:03 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Hi everyone, Here is some interesting reading on Schumann resonance. As far as I can tell it is pretty much always there. http://www.quake.geo.berkeley.edu/ncedc/em.intro.html http://www.earthbreathing.co.uk/sr.htm http://sedonanomalies.com/Schumann.htm --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Grumpy	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #18 on: 2010-06-12, 00:55:37 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	yeah the SR is interesting, but the energy comes from ightning - try pulling that in...ouch.... the caries of current, electrons, are already in the wire - tell them to move

darkspeed	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #19 on: 2010-06-12, 05:03:38 »
Group: Guest	I have always wondered if the lightning is only disturbing the magnetic field that naturally exists on a number of frequencies. I never thought the power was from the lightning. I just think we can measure it because of the lightning. The lightning gives it more than a magnetic signature. Without the lightning we would need a meter and an antenna with a rapidly spinning and downward spiraling motion

Grumpy	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #20 on: 2010-06-12, 05:17:36 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Quote from: darkspeed on 2010-06-12, 05:03:38 Without the lightning we would need a meter and an antenna with a rapidly spinning and downward spiraling motion Markovich (or something like that?)

darkspeed	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #21 on: 2010-06-12, 05:24:28 »
Group: Guest	No i dont think so.. If there is a downward spiral - and it has a self organization effect on electron flow.. I am guessing that because of its wavelength it would be a large diameter spiral with closely stacked rings ' think slinki ' So if you wanted to receive you would need a fast downward motion to match the decay of the spiral and a very fast spin to equate to the distance traveled on the diameter of each ring. I hope that made sence

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #22 on: 2010-06-12, 05:34:32 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Thats funny Grumpy I can see a lightning sucking machine coming soon. Wouldn't that be fun to build? Actually I was thinking more of trying to avoid lightning and just try to pick up the signal, if this was a 20Khz or 100Khz or a 1Mhz signal no one would be questioning it, but 8 Hz, why can't this be treated just like any other signal? It is just slow but it's hanging around waiting to be used for free. I personally don't care if it's slow I'm getting a bit slow myself. I see we got some brainstorming going on here, this is good, probably the only way were going to get somewhere --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke

Grumpy	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #23 on: 2010-06-12, 05:39:52 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3948 tExB=qr	Electrons, which drift and constitute a conduction current, are already in our circuits. Find a way to tell them to drift that doesn't require moving a lot of mass (like magnets).

Room3327	Re: Tuneable Large Signal Reciever « Reply #24 on: 2010-06-12, 05:51:35 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 571	Yea, that idea is in my head too Grumpy. Thats one of the reasons I like motionless projects the best. --------------------------- "Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material" Nicola Tesla "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Edmund Burke