Experiments and Anomalies

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Author Topic: Experiments and Anomalies (Read 137927 times)

PhysicsProf	Experiments and Anomalies « on: 2014-05-09, 05:39:06 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Through the years, we've performed experiments and we've seen a number of anomalies. It is my thought that if certain anomalies could be made reproducible AND freely available for the benefit of mankind, such "anomalies" could result in the breakthrough energy source that we seek. Recently, Slider has corresponded with me about anomalies that he has seen in his experiments. I'm impressed! LaserSaber and Groundloop mention anomalies seen in related circuits. There are other examples. This thread is started to permit friendly discussion of "anomalous" results of Slider -- AND OTHERS. Join in the fun!

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #1 on: 2014-05-09, 07:30:19 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Thank you for starting the thread Steve. Anomalous to myself could be common knowledge to others and indeed is why a thorough shake down and assessment is needed. I began down this Lasersaber SJR Looper/Akula road with the thinking that a 1K resistor over a cap with an LED was going to trump whatever circuit resistance would be 'in the way' from something built. But.... The running of a mains LED night light far better than a single white LED, an LED that jumps in brightness and recovers after flickering to what should be the end, a coil being enhanced by mains proximity and negatively being impacted by a 27MHz R/C controller are just a few of the reasons that my own thinking is changing. To cut to the chase, my own 'best' with such a circuit is now a 3 minutes run, as shown in the video below: [youtube]ZtH6k3ctFQk[/youtube] Circuit details: Core is from Nebraska Surplus, as kindly supplied by Steve and matches the one Lasersaber showed. 3300uF x 3 electrolytics on the front end (from the mid 90's so are what may be termed vintage) 3.6V ex cellphone li-ion battery as initial power source (measured and it's old too so never gets past 3.8V) SMD '1P' 2N2222A. The coil is an Akula wind, as determined by watching the video where Wesley translates the unravelling of a coil. I'd like to know if i'm in the ball park ? - 160 winds of 24AWG first layer, 130 winds 24AWG second layer. Gapped copper pieces as per the video. Then, a 3rd winding of 200 turns 34AWG, connected as per Lasersaber's red coil connections. The rest of the circuit is per Lasersaber's SJR Looper and what would be the blue coil is connected to the bolt at the top...so it's a hybrid. 2 coils to LS's spec didn't run at all unfortunately and hence why the Akula type was tried. They did however run on my version of LS's circuit, which intends the ability to run any type of core that doesn't have a middle bolt through it. Here's that video: http://youtu.be/nIcvbRzhdzo Here is a list of the uploaded videos so far of relevance. Bobbin Building - How I build the winding bobbins without owning a 3D printer - http://youtu.be/g3fZROqybcY A good view of the present setup - http://youtu.be/KBYiKgFruGU Ambient energies - the effects of a mains lamp being brought near to the coil and of the negative effects of a 27MHz R/C controller - http://youtu.be/OGoa21FKrtI 2min 40 sec run - this shows the sudden jumps upward in LED intensity that the circuit does all on it's own in the first minute of running. Then, the recovery back to stable light near the end, after it has faded and seemed to flicker out ! http://youtu.be/eZ7NCJgzFYA Summaries and thoughts: Transistors tried include C1815, MPSA14 (Darlington), C2236, but the '1P' SMD version of the 2N2222A that arrived in the mail today work best by a long way. 40 seconds was the record with a MPSA14, now it's up to 3 minutes. Using this coil, the LED jumps in intensity in increments in the first minute of running. At the rundown point where it flickers and should go out, it can recover to solid light output for several seconds again ?!?! The circuit oscillates at 32kHz initially, falling to a plateau of 16kHz, then onward down til stopping. All is quite linear on the downward section, until near the end where it hunts all over the place around 2kHz. The coil has an audible ring. It makes growling noises when no load is connected. The circuit will natively run as a Joule Thief type on a 1.5V button cell. A 9V battery doesn't make a whole heck of difference compared to 3.6V. With no capacitors in place, the coil will sound just like an old camera flash circuit. Run times appear unaffected by increases of mains night light capacitance above 4.1uF The oscillation speed may be one factor, reducing it to about 40Hz would seem a good use of available energy for LED's. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #2 on: 2014-05-09, 13:20:56 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Thanks, Mark, for providing a summary of the anomalies you are seeing with your SJR circuit and Akula-type transformer. Intriguing work! I see you have wound and tried three of the cores specified by LS. I'll send more cores just in case you need them; and are not burned out winding them... Quote The coil has an audible ring. It makes growling noises when no load is connected. The circuit will natively run as a Joule Thief type on a 1.5V button cell. A 9V battery doesn't make a whole heck of difference compared to 3.6V. With no capacitors in place, the coil will sound just like an old camera flash circuit. Run times appear unaffected by increases of mains night light capacitance above 4.1uF Questions: Does your "mains night light" use an LED or an incandescent? I presume an LED. This would be rather like LS's mains' light he uses for a load. The audible ringing of the coil must remove energy... Is there any way to quiet it? Did LS's coil make noise? (IIRC, it did not...) What diodes are you using for your FWBR? Can you sketch the circuit you are using to get the 3-minute run? Thanks again.

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #3 on: 2014-05-09, 14:11:41 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Great idea for a thread guy's. Mark-how do you think the old !cool joule! would stack up against LS latest setup?. Well insted of soldering together or using bread board's for all these different circuit's,i remember as a child,having this 10 in 1 set. Well i found a 130 in 1 electronics set. Some may see this as just a kid's toy,but i see it as a very easy way to try many different circuit,without soldering or using messy bread board setup's. It is also very easy to add to, or change components on the board. This is a very simply wqy to try many different circuit's-you just clip the wire under the spring's. Also had my two pot core's and 4 bobins turn up yesterday. ------------------------ Experiments and Anomalies 130 1.JPG (175.25 kB, 980x735 - viewed 3170 times.) Experiments and Anomalies pot cores.JPG (98.08 kB, 980x735 - viewed 2590 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #4 on: 2014-05-09, 16:12:21 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Good ideas, AquaTek. Quote "Also had my two pot core's and 4 bobins turn up yesterday. Where did you order the bobbins from? Does Nebraska surplus have them?

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #5 on: 2014-05-09, 19:34:49 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	The 3 minute circuit is easy to describe and may not need a schematic. It's the Lasersaber SJR Looper, but using the Akula type coil as shown in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lpx1SJdXnmo&feature=youtu.be&t=5m10s Inner winding is LS's Green wire Next winding is LS's Blue wire An additional winding over the top (tertiary ?) of 34AWG 200 turns is LS's Red wire So, it's intending to be the same construction as the Wesley voiced over video, but with a tertiary coil over the top. The FWBR is of 1N34A germanium diodes. Good point on the bobbins. If they're matched to the cores by being thin plastic and the correct height then that would save a lot of Dremmeling and be better for replicating if anything good happens along. It would be fantastic to have more cores arrive, but I can certainly reuse the 3 here. The issue is probably wire, i'm using 24AWG from a TV degauss coil and have run out of 34AWG. But, I do have 30AWG on order and have a few previous coil builds to salvage from. The 130-1 is not a bad idea at all. If you think how many times we wire up similar components to test out different circuits, then it seems a great idea to put such component pieces in one place. A sort of tailored breadboard, with often used elements in place. The Cool Joule had high resistance as a main feature of the running, but does make the mind wander with a 'what if ?'. I'll try 2 of this type of coil on a Cool Joule circuit. Perhaps center tapping or split winding a good Looper circuit coil would then require only 1 coil. The mains night light is a Dollar Tree type. They use a blue LED. The trickery is in the resistor and capacitor tank circuit, plus the diode. It seems to be a very regular method of running an LED from mains. There is a lot of waste with the resistor, 1W being recommended because a 1/2W may burn up in regular mains use. The resistor in the circuit I took apart has scorch marks ! So the method forward is to use a capacitor in series with the LED. Some follow up links that are proving insightful regarding mains LED's: http://www.bigclive.com/ledlmp.htm http://www.marcspages.co.uk/tech/6103.htm http://www.edaboard.com/thread30310.html The TL494 of the Akula would allow for PWM frequency control, but there has to be a way of removing the loses that the chip will have. A different regulation, through turns of wire and capacitance is to be a focus of today - to stop it audibly ringing too. « Last Edit: 2014-05-09, 20:36:18 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #6 on: 2014-05-10, 01:25:13 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	@ PysicsProf The bobbins and core's came from altronic's,but they are only 1" OD,so quite small-but should be ok for some testing.. The bobbins are suited to the core's,so will make winding easy. I was given a nice large work bench yesterday,so will be rearanging the lab first up today.Then i need to try and fix my SG,as it will be needed for these test -along with many other thing's to come. But im hoping to have something up and running by day's end. @ Slider The only reason i asked about trying the cool joule circuit,was the anomalies that surrounded it. I could get mine to light an LED with just uA's of current,but it never occurred to me to try it with cap's at the time. Anyway-off to get the lab up and running again,and start looking at some of these circuit's. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #7 on: 2014-05-10, 04:43:26 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	I would say that there are many routes for crossing bits of one circuit with another...the Cool Joule is certainly likely to feature ! It was so simple and so brilliant from our friend Brad. Been a bit setback today, my soldering iron solder bit ran low and wouldn't come out of the middle. So I fixed up another. In the interim, the use of a frequency generator on the power input appealed - perhaps linking with your SG thoughts and the need to fix it . My handheld scope seems to have messed up input ports on its 2 channels, but the freq gen output is fine. The vid below explores using the frequency generator on its square wave setting. In common with the way the circuit runs itself (on this coil and transistor), the best range is between 1kHz and 100kHz. Meter used for testing the frequency of the circuit is a Uni-T 136B. I found it interesting how with a square wave coming in, rather than a DC voltage, the circuit runs very similarly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWezOm5OGN4 Duty cycles from 5% to 60% produce similar output, it then dropping off higher. 5% duty cycle gives pause for thought for efficiency. As does the output voltage of the frequency generator at a measured 1.042V --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #8 on: 2014-05-10, 05:42:43 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Nice demo Mark. I managed to get my SG up and going,so it will come in handy to check out different wave form's and frequencie's. New work bench is in and ready to go,so time to get cracking. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #9 on: 2014-05-10, 06:57:56 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	^ yes this friend Brad....I forgot you were AquaTek $:-\$ Good heavens that's funny, anyway, shows you that I like your work ! I see all your posts changed over to TinMan, hmm, nifty forum feature. Looking forward to your results and especially where a coil works best. Of course, it could be that most coils on this particular ferrite grade perform best at those frequencies. Square wave has shown the best results, but it's basically an on/off trigger and cleanest of the signals. What has also been interesting is that it outperforms the direct DC output, something to consider. Perhaps a frequency tuned chopper transistor could go on the front end to supply the main circuit....blocking oscillator type of thing, tuned to 1kHz with the regular tank section method to the Base. Am winding an exact to ohm coil now of the 2 thicker gauge windings. 160+160 of the Akula bobbin layout. That will form a coil basis. Then will wind different amounts of finer gauge as the 3rd coil for run tests. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #10 on: 2014-05-10, 10:00:24 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Ever been ecstatic and dejected at the same time ? The circuit now runs for 10 minutes plus !!!! But, I started recording a video 3 minutes in to the run. It looks like I have to change the feedback winding to trigger the Base of the transistor, because it's difficult to get started. Needs more on the Base to keep the oscillations going. It randomly started up when a finger was pressed on the negative rail and then, when the light had faded to a steady non decaying level...I ran for the camera to record something longer than previous runs. All is explained in the video and I show the floral wire used, as the circuit plods along. It lasted for 9 minutes 50 seconds in the video below. But, as I say, I wished to start the thing properly with a few seconds of precharge and document a real run. Will rewind tomorrow with more turns for the Base. From the middle of the bobbin: Gapped copper foil, connecting to Inner coil 160 turns of 24AWG, then Middle coil 160 turns of 24AWG Gapped copper foil, not connected to anything 80 turns green floral wire Each stage is protected from scratches with a turn of black electrical tape http://youtu.be/5elv9037ZuE (still uploading, 60% of 345mb, time for bed) --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #11 on: 2014-05-10, 12:52:54 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Slider - great idea to run it with SG - and intriguing results. Hope you will keep going on this path also. Over 9 minutes - very good! "From the middle of the bobbin: Gapped copper foil, connecting to Inner coil 160 turns of 24AWG, then Middle coil 160 turns of 24AWG Gapped copper foil, not connected to anything 80 turns green floral wire " This differs now quite a bit from LS's where the middle coil is several layers, perhaps a 10:1 ratio with respect to the inner coil. But do you get better results really with 1:1 ratio?

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #12 on: 2014-05-10, 19:01:08 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	I'll get it started up and do a frequencies run again...i'd like to see if this coil similarly runs at an average of 8kHz. Then add to what is the red wire on LS's diagram, that translates as my outer winding. Yep, the SG will now feature for all such low input coils and projects. It does differ from LS's, but is the Akula winding method. When the 30AWG arrives i'll be able to retry with a middle fill up of the bobbin again. This route is also because the coils wound to LS's method didn't run at all on the circuit, but the other method does This is a 2:1 ratio at the moment, being 160:80, the Primary being the green and the Base feed being the red. All that's really happened, is that the red middle coil of LS's has been shifted to the outside. In so doing, the coil ratio can be changed readily. The floral wire will be ditched, as it filled up the space in the core at 80 turns. An update: It now has 200 winds of 30AWG, taken from an old project and starts up fine. A timed run will be done and frequency measurements taken. The '555-a-like' circuit from a couple of years ago will be tried on the front end, to give the square wave with variable duty cycle - www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk63WijKZFc The intention is a very low (uA) oscillator feeding in, to produce a stronger light output for a long duration. It drifts from the idea, but would satisfy a curiosity, based on the SG runs yesterday. ------------------------ Experiments and Anomalies 555-a-like.png (79.85 kB, 546x360 - viewed 2144 times.) « Last Edit: 2014-05-10, 20:15:40 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #13 on: 2014-05-10, 21:52:19 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	19 minutes ! I called it The Paul Hardcastle Run (80's music reference). The increase in Base trigger windings has made the difference. Also, it now sits around 1.070kHz and is very flat in that regard throughout. That video is to follow, where I will show frequency measurements. The video below shows the full 19 minutes run. [youtube]AjdoHqeToJs[/youtube] The circuit runs for approximately half an hour in total, because it carries on oscillating long after the light extinguishes. When down to the dregs of remaining capacitor charge and the light has gone out, the frequency bobbles around 1-2kHz and rapidly fluctuates, as though the coil is trying to regain the balance. Here is the frequency testing video of this coil: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK5LhMD-tsk « Last Edit: 2014-05-10, 23:37:21 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #14 on: 2014-05-11, 03:28:51 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Excellent again, Slider! 19 minutes is great progress... As I'm still with family away from my home (Mo) but should be back end-of-the week. Looking forward to having fun with this circuit and coil design also;.... Slider has made some great suggestions on this thread.

Peterae	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #15 on: 2014-05-11, 06:45:12 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Hi Slider Fantastic, thanks for sharing your work Cheers Peter

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #16 on: 2014-05-11, 07:45:52 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Thanks chaps A higher quality version of the 19 minute run will be within a video now being publicly uploaded. It has an intro piece at the front, to explain the video. Hopefully it spurs others on with their building of such circuits. 3hrs to upload It may generate a little traffic to your forum here Peter too lol, having added this thread to the video description. Oh, unless Steve you'd rather not have all and sundry viewing your area of the forum ? I'm sure this can go a lot further for research. The 5% duty cycle square wave and 1V SG runnings being pointers to something extra. Am building a replication of this circuit now...the other being sent on its travels to Steve after the weekend. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #17 on: 2014-05-11, 08:17:45 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	Thanks so much again, Slider! we encourage each other and help each other I'm looking forward to that vid - and hope that more people come to this thread and are encouraged thereby.

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #18 on: 2014-05-11, 08:27:50 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Hi Mark What value are the cap's your using to run the system? I have been running a simple throw together circuit,with nothing more than an air core coil(one's used in the cool joule setup's).I can achieve a oscillation run time of a hour,with the LED lit for around 32 minute's,on nothing more than 1x 4700uf cap and 1x 470uf cap to capture the return(looped)energy. Start voltage at about 4.8 volt's. The SG is triggering the transistor,but i have 42k ohm of resistance between the SG and base,to eliminate any power being contrubuted by the SC. Base voltage from SG is only 1.5 volts anyway,so wouldnt add anything to the 4.8 volt run voltage. The video is uploading now-has about an hour to go(very slow today). Will post it here as soon as it's done. P.S-you realy need to get one of these electronic lab kit's-so easy to build circuits with this kit. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Peterae	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #19 on: 2014-05-11, 08:59:53 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	Sounds great Slider, it's a good way to archive work for future research as well, you know i can set you up a bench as well if you wanted one. Cheers Peter

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #20 on: 2014-05-11, 09:36:55 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Here is my first test setup. Next will be to try a coil with a core,and see how we go with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wSPZxQXYR4 --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #21 on: 2014-05-11, 10:37:37 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	Yes but Mr. Tinman, your coils make it rain in Australia ! That's a very different circuit...looks superb for forwarding And, I would really want to put a piano type keyboard in front of all that analogue componentry, just looks like a vintage 1970's synth. Something like this OSC Oscar: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/OSC_OSCar.jpg Lasersaber used a 10,000uF. Mine have been 3x 3300uF. His run voltage was I think 9V, mine has been 3.6V. Your SG throughput does need checking though, because the Lasersaber circuit will fire up with a 1.042V SG output. Change the DC to square wave and that same voltage brightens the load by a large margin. 5% duty cycle is as effective as 50% too. Looking forward to your progress and i'm glad you are doing this ! @Peter - will think about the bench, cheers. A lot depends on a possible work move to Texas, but I won't be stopping working with this team here. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

TinMan	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #22 on: 2014-05-11, 10:48:29 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4728	Hi Slider The SG output is 1.5 volt's @ a 5% duty cycle. It will run the circuit at .8 volt's output.It's 3 volt's p to p,but with a 1.5 volt offset. At 50% duty cycle,the cap drain's in around 1 1/2 minute's,and LED will not light. It's just the cool joule circuit,but using the sg insted of the second coil to fire the transistor.But insted of going from the LED to the second battery,we go straight back to the run battery(cap in this case). Anyway,seems we have some catching up to do lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B79UJGoNJE --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Peterae	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #23 on: 2014-05-11, 10:50:02 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3959	No Problem Slider, good luck with the move

PhysicsProf	Re: Experiments and Anomalies « Reply #24 on: 2014-05-11, 13:28:07 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3017	LaserSaber is excited in this latest video (this morning, Mother's Day in the US) and for good reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B79UJGoNJE&feature=em-uploademail Note that it runs long, and operates just fine inside an unplugged microwave oven (as a Faraday cage). ------------------------ Experiments and Anomalies LS .png (473.59 kB, 1280x800 - viewed 2473 times.)

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