Component Identification

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OverUnity Research > Benches > poynt99 (Moderator: poynt99) > Component Identification

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Author Topic: Component Identification (Read 90778 times)

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #25 on: 2011-10-27, 02:29:57 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Rusty gear sounds better I'll be posting that tune. I need to buy some adapters so I can run my cassette deck into my sound card. I'll be picking those up tomorrow. Darren --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #26 on: 2011-10-27, 13:24:52 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Just an FYI, The simplest way to use two zeners for this application, is to connect them in series, back-to-back in the fb loop of the op-amp. The two components in question in this circuit are in parallel in the fb loop, and in such a case, they would perform as "normal" diodes only. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Peterae	Re: Component Identification « Reply #27 on: 2011-10-27, 13:44:14 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	I am amazed that the component in question has not been identified, I've looked for stacked diodes, limiter diodes and scanned pictures of older case styles and have not seen anything like it, and yet they obviously went to the trouble of putting them into production.

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #28 on: 2011-10-27, 14:20:26 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Here's a thread that talks of germanium diodes in early fuzzboxs: http://archive.ampage.org/threads/1/fxgd/000105/Germanium_diodes_color_code_-1.html --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Peterae	Re: Component Identification « Reply #29 on: 2011-10-27, 15:34:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	Ha ha getting closer Look at this datasheet but it's only got page 150 , Theres a diode with a V Forward of 0.9 and at the bottom it shows the diode package 30 we want. EDIT what we need is the rest of an old diode selection guide, i am now suspecting it's a single diode but with 0.9V forward but is it silicon or germanium. ------------------------ Diodes.pdf (96.33 kB - downloaded 532 times.)

Groundloop	Re: Component Identification « Reply #30 on: 2011-10-27, 16:14:21 »
Sr. Member Posts: 336	.99 The only time I ever had seen such a diode was in a power supply from around 1970, and it was a low voltage Zener. Most low voltage Zener diodes has a forward voltage of 0,9 to approx. 1 volt. So if you put two back to back in parallel then you get exactly what you want in clipping voltage. GL.

BEP	Re: Component Identification « Reply #31 on: 2011-10-27, 21:24:38 »
Group: Guest	It looks like you may have what was called a low leakage diode. If so, you can duplicate the operation by replacing it with a common small signal NPN transistor using only the base and collector leads. A 2N3904 should provide about .7V. Add a small resistor in series to bring it up to .9. I haven't tried that trick in a while. Normally, I would use some 1N34A's.

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #32 on: 2011-10-28, 00:19:43 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Groundloop on 2011-10-27, 16:14:21 .99 The only time I ever had seen such a diode was in a power supply from around 1970, and it was a low voltage Zener. Most low voltage Zener diodes has a forward voltage of 0,9 to approx. 1 volt. So if you put two back to back in parallel then you get exactly what you want in clipping voltage. GL. This is what I measured today with my meter: - 1N4148 V_F = 0.58V (as expected) - 1N34A (Germanium) V_F = 0.24V - 2.4V, 2.7V, 3.3V Zeners V_F = 0.66V - 4x 1N34A Ge's in series V_F = 0.93V .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #33 on: 2011-10-28, 01:45:51 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-10-28, 00:19:43 This is what I measured today with my meter: - 1N4148 V_F = 0.58V (as expected) - 1N34A (Germanium) V_F = 0.24V - 2.4V, 2.7V, 3.3V Zeners V_F = 0.66V - 4x 1N34A Ge's in series V_F = 0.93V .99 Different diode types are characterized at different forward currents. What current are you using? --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #34 on: 2011-10-28, 01:56:32 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	I was using a meter on the "diode" setting, so I assume they were all tested at the same current, which is what we want in order to compare V_F's for application in a clipping circuit. This is also most likely how that person on the forum made the measurements he posted. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #35 on: 2011-10-28, 02:10:10 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-10-28, 01:56:32 I was using a meter on the "diode" setting, so I assume they were all tested at the same current, which is what we want in order to compare V_F's for application in a clipping circuit. This is also most likely how that person on the forum made the measurements he posted. .99 True, but when comparing with info on data sheets, you should use the forward test current specified. Temperature also affects forward drop. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #36 on: 2011-10-28, 03:23:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	So here's that song, Nov, 1984: A friend (bass player) had some friends (vocalist and guitarist) from the University of Alberta that got together and wrote a song called "Set Fire". My friend and I were jamming with this green jazz drummer at the time, so they all came over to my place and in an afternoon we recorded this song on a 4-track cassette machine for entry into the local rock station's battle of the bands or something to that effect. My part was to play only the lead guitar. I did one take. My friend the bass player was getting into popping and slapping technique and I suppose he figured this song suited that style.....I didn't think so...judge for yourself. We are off time and the vocalist can not be understood, nor could he sing that well imho. We also had no equipment to speak of (all guitars went direct I think), and the echo was my Boss Analog Delay. Anyway, it is kinda bad, but we had fun doing it. I'm sure when folks heard this song on the radio they were agreeing with the chorus line of "set fire to me" LOL. One day shortly thereafter, I was waiting at a place of business to pick something up and suddenly our song came on the radio playing in the reception area....cool .99 ------------------------ set_fire.mp3 (4117.55 kB - downloaded 334 times.) --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

muDped	Re: Component Identification « Reply #37 on: 2011-10-28, 04:14:58 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	.99, Not bad at all! Better in fact than much of what is heard today from some of the so-called "stars." Can you tell us more about the lyrics? How should we interpret them? It would seem that the mystery components have at last been identified. Germanium stacks (and silicon too) were used in biasing complementary output stages to minimize crossover distortion. Creative minds found other interesting uses for them also. One must wonder how the Fuzz circuit would work with LEDs in place of the 0.9 Volt Germaniums... Here's a page with circuits and explanations. .99, I see the difference in Germanium (soft) and Silicon (hard) clipping. Yes, LEDs would clip at a higher amplitude. « Last Edit: 2011-10-28, 04:48:02 by Dumped » --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #38 on: 2011-10-28, 04:29:00 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Thanks Dumped. I honestly don't remember exactly what the lyrics mean. Half of the words are unintelligible which makes even more difficult to figure out. Germanium stacks, yes, but did they come in a single package like that? Later someone figured out how to do the biasing better with a Vbe multiplier, i.e. a transistor. LED's clip quite hard (and at a higher amplitude) compared to diodes and germaniums, so I like to use them as a "top clip" in combination with a lower threshold and softer clipping diode. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

BEP	Re: Component Identification « Reply #39 on: 2011-10-28, 11:33:05 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-10-28, 04:29:00 Later someone figured out how to do the biasing better with a Vbe multiplier, i.e. a transistor. .99, Seriously? Forgive me but I'm more an RF guy and not so much into pn junctions either but wouldn't a V_be multiplier just be a constant current source? And, heavily dependent upon temperature? I hope the designs graduated from that method. If it was the same as RF there would be problems with thermal delay, age variations, mismatch between relative temp coefficients, etc. I suppose folks like Peterae are just burning the functions as firmware now

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #40 on: 2011-10-28, 12:13:56 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Nice job on the tune. I played it very early this morning and I know it's gonna stick in my head all day, and that's a good thing, that's what record producers want. Could have been on the chart's. I have only one song that ever received airplay, a spoofy country lament about a farmer whose wife tore down the old outhouse and had installed indoor plumbing "cold porcelain seats and all" while he was out plowin' the high field. I think it was played on the"Meatball Fulton" show back in '68, Philadelphia for his "Country Special (comedy) Hour". I never could write anything serious. Fotunately the tape was lost sparing you all any further agony. On the subject of clipping, wayback I installed a 6AL5 miniature dual rectifier in my Fender Super Reverb for a clipping device. I used variable filament voltage to the tube to control the amount and shape of clipping. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #41 on: 2011-10-28, 13:26:10 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-10-28, 11:33:05 .99, Seriously? Forgive me but I'm more an RF guy and not so much into pn junctions either but wouldn't a V_be multiplier just be a constant current source? And, heavily dependent upon temperature? I hope the designs graduated from that method. If it was the same as RF there would be problems with thermal delay, age variations, mismatch between relative temp coefficients, etc. I suppose folks like Peterae are just burning the functions as firmware now Indeed, it is essentially a current source and with the correct values, it supplies a "floating" bias voltage across the driver stage. Attach the transistor body to the output heat sink and set the values correctly, and you have near perfect tracking of the bias voltage/current as the finals heat and cool. So temperature variation/tracking is precisely what you want. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #42 on: 2011-10-28, 13:31:43 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Hi Vince. Yeah the chorus can be a little catchy I guess. Too bad you lost the song. I've lost some tapes too that I wish I had back from long ago. How did your tricked-out Super Reverb sound? Darren --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #43 on: 2011-10-28, 15:15:41 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-10-28, 13:31:43 Hi Vince. Yeah the chorus can be a little catchy I guess. Too bad you lost the song. I've lost some tapes too that I wish I had back from long ago. How did your tricked-out Super Reverb sound? Darren I think it sounded ok, but lacking some of the sweet harmonics of an external box. I made a number of other mods to that amp that probably destroyed its vintage resale value e.g. Solid state rectifiers instead of 5U4. I used the leftover 5 volt winding as a power boost / buck (switchable) inserted into the primary. Beefier power supply filtering. Added individual bias pots and indicator leds so the bias could be precisely set for each output tube. Beefed up the light gauge speaker wiring. Eliminated the problematic speaker jack in favor of hard wiring with solder connections to all speakers. But it was pretty beat up physically when given to me Added a channel switching relay (mercury wetted contacts) for the overdrive channel. And all the usual mods. Still have it and it sounds fine. Am using a smaller Hot Rod Deluxe nowadays. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

Peterae	Re: Component Identification « Reply #44 on: 2011-10-28, 16:43:51 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3961	I think you guys have some amazing talents and not just dam good in the electronics field. It is unfortunate that most never manage to make a living from such talents, specially in the arts area, but when they do, what a life. I have a friend who was a roadie for Led Zeppelin many years ago now, some of the stories he tells are amazing. Thing is with anything to do with arts, you don't need to be really good, you just need good publicity and do stuff people like to hear or see. Look at how much bad music is about and these peole make a living at it. There's not much hope for me now, i keep forgetting things. it was Led Zeppelin not Thin Lizzy « Last Edit: 2011-10-28, 19:03:19 by Peterae »

the_big_m_in_ok	Re: Component Identification « Reply #45 on: 2011-10-28, 17:04:56 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Peterae on 2011-10-28, 16:43:51 I think you guys have some amazing talents and not just dam good in the electronics field. It is unfortunate that most never manage to make a living from such talents, specially in the arts area, but when they do, what a life. I have a friend who was a roadie for Thin Lizzy many years ago now, some of the stories he tells are amazing. Thing is with anything to do with arts, you don't need to be really good, you just need good publicity and do stuff people like to hear or see. Look at how much bad music is about and these peole make a living at it. You bet, Peter... The American rock group "Boston" started at MIT with engineering students, one of whom got his Master's there. An announcement along those lines: I've got a job coming up by Christmas working in the engineering field analyzing computer output data starting with, say, naval engineering. This'll be classified, so that's all I'm going to say about it. However, I would like to get more into music and electronic music in particular. It might happen in a few years. --Lee

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #46 on: 2011-10-28, 18:30:51 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	I made a very comfortable living in the electronics industry, but music has always been an amateur pursuit and I like it that way. (amateur: one who loves what they do) Never much of a showman, I was always more interested in the personal side of music, it became sort of a way to journal what I was feeling with a home studio. Nonetheless, I have been in many small time bands over the years and like to jam with the fellows now and then. That mixed with a strong interest in the technical side has been an enjoyable life journey. I wouldn't have had it any other way. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

poynt99	Re: Component Identification « Reply #47 on: 2011-10-28, 20:43:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3217 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	http://semiconductormuseum.com/MuseumLibrary/HistoryOfCrystalDiodesVolume1.pdf Interesting. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

BEP	Re: Component Identification « Reply #48 on: 2011-10-28, 21:17:02 »
Group: Guest	Museum? I thought those were the new models Sticking the bias transistor on the heat sink was common in RF too. There were better ways which accounted for the other problems but I think all of that is mute with software based equipment.

ion	Re: Component Identification « Reply #49 on: 2011-10-28, 22:55:57 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Peterae: I feel really lucky, as I have nearly all of the diodes mentioned in that pdf. don't have the cat whisker setup anymore tho --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

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