PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
OverUnity Research > Electrical / Electronic Devices > Solid-State Generators > Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent
2024-11-27, 04:39:05
News: Check out the Benches; a place for people to moderate their own thread and document their builds and data.
If you would like your own Bench, please PM an Admin.
Most Benches are visible only to members.

Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent  (Read 42150 times)
Topic Options img
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #25 on: 2011-08-08, 21:40:11 »
Group: Guest
The bi-stable magnet function is quite real and when used COE becomes questionable.

The first use coming to mind is that of the very large circuit breaker operating mechanism. The amount of energy needed to operate the breaker is only a fraction of the work being done.

I'm sure I posted a link or copy of the document here before.

I am partial to this breaker mechanism because I have used that very breaker in many of my designs.
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #26 on: 2011-08-09, 01:43:42 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-08-08, 21:40:11
The bi-stable magnet function is quite real and when used COE becomes questionable.

The first use coming to mind is that of the very large circuit breaker operating mechanism. The amount of energy needed to operate the breaker is only a fraction of the work being done.

I'm sure I posted a link or copy of the document here before.

I am partial to this breaker mechanism because I have used that very breaker in many of my designs.

Could you expand a bit on that. I remember downloading and reading the CB mechanism, but have misfiled it somewhere.

We need to toss around a few ideas that could be easily tested.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #27 on: 2011-08-09, 02:27:33 »
Group: Guest
Here it is...

http://www05.abb.com/global/scot/scot235.nsf/veritydisplay/5e750b2ecc5b760ec1256ad4002d2c00/

The method of redirecting the magnetic connection is well proven in the above example. The big difference is a metal plunger is moved (with a great deal of force) by redirecting the flux in a bistable operation.
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #28 on: 2011-08-09, 03:22:11 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
WW,

I like the current breaker you posted, it's similar to a bistable switch and we can make an oscillator out of it.   

I wonder how much energy it takes to get it to switch states, and how much energy the permanet magnet delivers afterwards.    If more, than chi-ching!  we've got free energy from the magnet!

EM
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #29 on: 2011-08-09, 03:26:23 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Thanks for the repost, now I remember having read the main info about the bistable relay actuator.

I believe there are small relays that are magnetically biased, and I have a few large old telephone relays that have a magnetic bias.

I'll post a picture of one when the batteries for the camera charge up.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #30 on: 2011-08-09, 10:32:38 »
Group: Guest
I remember looking into the force applied by the magnetic actuator. It was on the order of 24,000 lbs of force after a very short stroke.

The circuit needed to supply control power was rated at 110VDC (not a typo) and fused for 3 Amps.

The TELCOs were the masters of magnetized relay devices. I may have a few of the different types in a junk box somewhere.
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #31 on: 2011-08-09, 13:27:47 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Here's a photo of an old bistable from my junkbox (box of treasured old items). Notice the horseshoe magnet close to the base and the reed is biased at the center or null point of the magnet.

The large knurled adjustment knobs set the distance from the reed to either pole. The smaller adjustments are the contact points. There are two coils wound on the spool, 130 Ohms each. A beautifully crafted device.

Back to the switched flux:

I'm thinking we can use a resonant circuit L-C  in the H bridge as in a ferroresonant transformer to force the flux switching without dissipating power, as the voltage and current will be 90 degrees out.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Peterae
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #32 on: 2011-08-09, 14:08:20 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Quote
I'm thinking we can use a resonant circuit L-C  in the H bridge as in a ferroresonant transformer to force the flux switching without dissipating power, as the voltage and current will be 90 degrees out.

If Romero had used bias magnets on his drive coils, and tuned each drive coil with a cap and then drove these tuned coils in series at resonance, don't we then have exactly what you are describing, except the rotor magnet is the reed.

EDIT beautifully engineered device, would cost a pretty penny these days
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #33 on: 2011-08-09, 14:32:44 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Peterae on 2011-08-09, 14:08:20
If Romero had used bias magnets on his drive coils, and tuned each drive coil with a cap and then drove these tuned coils in series at resonance, don't we then have exactly what you are describing, except the rotor magnet is the reed.

EDIT beautifully engineered device, would cost a pretty penny these days

Yes.

As you have described it (with the addition of resultant radial fields) the drive coil arrangement would then meet one of my three ways to avoid Lenz. Thus my enthusiasm for the motor design and my early mistake on my diagram.  8)
   
img  Peterae
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #34 on: 2011-08-09, 14:50:34 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
worth a try anyway to see how it affects the efficiency of the drive circuit running at resonance.
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #35 on: 2011-08-12, 14:28:19 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
I am currently working on a mechanical flux switching oscillator, a bit simpler design than what is shown in the patents.

The flux does not have to reverse, just change in intensity switching from one side to the other generates about 40 volts in each of my coils. There is a pulse on make and pulse on release for each coil.

I will be using a spring steel and weight to help generate the 90 degree phase shift for switch assist with a little release assist  by way of a spike of current from the voltage generated. The weight and steel spring will act as a tuning fork, and convert some of the "make" energy into "release" assist by way of phase shifting the energy.

Later, I will convert the device to purely electronic flux switching.

Here's a rough sketch of what I have built. It is truly bistable. The prototype in soft steel snaps very nicely from one position to the other.

Also a picture of the incomplete device, will be mounted to a plexi housing.

I understand in principle that this is probably no different than a stepper motor or other PM motor with cogging, I just wanted to experiment with a bistable device.

I have other simple designs on paper that do flux reversal, but this does not seem necessary and would increase hysteresis loss in the soft steel I am using. Flux change without reversal seems to work nicely.
« Last Edit: 2011-08-12, 14:54:48 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Peterae
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #36 on: 2011-08-12, 15:16:15 »

Group: Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3961


Buy me some coffee
Looks great ION, how are you going to gauge efficiency or should it self run  :)
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #37 on: 2011-08-12, 16:19:21 »
Group: Guest
ION,

Very nice.

Yes, indeed. Stay away from flux reversal. Using reversal you are facing twice the hysteresis losses. The best always seemed to be where the magnet saw very little flux density change and almost no hysteresis loss.

 
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #38 on: 2011-08-12, 16:37:48 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2735
@Ion
I have built many devices like this and you are going to notice a few issues that need to be corrected.
First the top iron bar which teeters when touching the vertical electromagnet iron pieces will stick. If you place a thin piece of tape over the electromagnet iron end then the teeter won't stick however the peculiar sharp HV spike when two magnetized pieces of iron come into physical contact will not be present.
Another issue is the magnet placement, If you take a compass or a small pin on a thread you will find a majority of the field from the magnet has simply turned 180 Deg and re-entered the bottom of the magnet. This is because a piece of soft iron is not a magnet even though magnet poles have been induced in it, it is the same reason many thin magnets stacked on top of one another will have much weaker poles than a single magnet of the same height and diameter. A magnetic field will take the shortest route which in your case is through the air space around the magnet. This can be corrected by having a magnet at the top and bottom of the center iron piece or the best solution is to have a single long magnet in the center. It is important to remember that a "magnet" is not what we see, not the object we see, every single part of the magnet is the magnet acting together to form the whole.
I know some like to state it is all the same and it really does not matter how this is done however in theory and practice I have proven that all these little details do matter more than most realize.
Regards
AC


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #39 on: 2011-08-12, 16:42:28 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: Peterae on 2011-08-12, 15:16:15
Looks great ION, how are you going to gauge efficiency or should it self run  :)

The theory is that the attractive force will store some energy in the spring and weight to be released on the back stroke helping with the required release. This won't do it all and will need an extra push. I'm hoping to take a little of the output energy to provide a momentary kick to help force it to the other state.

Hopefully it will self run at some point, otherwise it will make a nice tick-tock art object / noisemaker.

There are numerous variations on this theme. I want to keep it simple and start with something very basic, then move on to more exotic all electronic designs.

The addition of Hall sensors or optical means to determine the exact timing point when the spring steel and weight are delivering maximum torque for the opening will be required as this progresses.


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #40 on: 2011-08-12, 16:51:11 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: allcanadian on 2011-08-12, 16:37:48
@Ion
I have built many devices like this and you are going to notice a few issues that need to be corrected.
First the top iron bar which teeters when touching the vertical electromagnet iron pieces will stick. If you place a thin piece of tape over the electromagnet iron end then the teeter won't stick however the peculiar sharp HV spike when two magnetized pieces of iron come into physical contact will not be present.
Another issue is the magnet placement, If you take a compass or a small pin on a thread you will find a majority of the field from the magnet has simply turned 180 Deg and re-entered the bottom of the magnet. This is because a piece of soft iron is not a magnet even though magnet poles have been induced in it, it is the same reason many thin magnets stacked on top of one another will have much weaker poles than a single magnet of the same height and diameter. A magnetic field will take the shortest route which in your case is through the air space around the magnet. This can be corrected by having a magnet at the top and bottom of the center iron piece or the best solution is to have a single long magnet in the center. It is important to remember that a "magnet" is not what we see, not the object we see, every single part of the magnet is the magnet acting together to form the whole.
I know some like to state it is all the same and it really does not matter how this is done however in theory and practice I have proven that all these little details do matter more than most realize.
Regards
AC

Yes, I already played with gapping using thin layers of tape, then I decided to use non ferrous gap adjusting screws. There is a reduction of output when using a gap, I hope not to have to do this, and rely on the energy storage (inertia) of the steel spring blade and weight to provide the greater majority of the unsticking force, but not all of it. Some will come from a pulse injected from the stored emf of the coils.

I would love to see some of your designs...can you post them? No point in me beating a dead horse if you've done all of this already. Maybe a picture or sketch and theory of your most exotic unit?


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #41 on: 2011-08-12, 18:36:13 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
Very nice ION,  I'll be following this closely.  I'm curious how well it will work.



Here's something that I've always wondered about these kinds of devices.  


The force of attraction is nonlinear, and increases from zero at the balanced point to a maximum as the gap is closed.  The spring and weight is certainly a good step in the right direction, but I've always wondered,  could we design a mechanical spring and cam force restoration system to perfectly oppose the gap force at every angular displacement?   If we can do this than we have a net force of zero in any position of the magnetic bar.    I think this is possible, I've taken a kinematics class in school and I remember all sorts of links and cams and path profiles that produce nonlinear forces.    

So once we have nullified the magnetic attraction force, by opposing it with a spring force that matches it's profile (analogous to reducing cogging in a Muller dynamo,)  we can now rotate the top teetering iron piece with no force input, and hence no mechanical power input!    At this point, we might be tempted to think that now we have a Free Energy device.

However,  if we start to consider the electrodynamic side of this device, there are extra forces that start to develop as current flows in the solenoids, and these would upset the perfect force balance and we end up having to put Mechanical energy into it to account for the Electrical energy generated.  


To make a motor analogy:   Cogging is not the obstacle to a free energy generator, it's Lenz's law!


EM
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #42 on: 2011-08-12, 19:42:16 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2735
@Ion
Quote
I would love to see some of your designs...can you post them? No point in me beating a dead horse if you've done all of this already. Maybe a picture or sketch and theory of your most exotic unit?
I was never one for show and tell however I can explain the issues you and everyone else must resolve. First when the teeter approaches one of the solenoid legs the changing magnetic field induces a changing current in the solenoid which will produce a field which will oppose the changing magnetic field which induced it aka Lenz Law. It is widely held that this is a repulsive field but in reality we should consider it as a dampening field because the effect is the same as trying to poke a stick into a pail of jello. The same effect occurs when we try to drop a strong magnet down a copper tube and all motion is resisted.
The issue is that the leg of the teeter approaching the coil contains a magnetic field thus is a part of it and when this changing field induces a current in the coil the coil produces a dampening field which acts not on the teeter but the field within it which is intrinsic to every part of the teeter, there is no fooling mother nature here we can only understand it.
Let's look at it from another perspective, the attractive force of the teeter to the coil leg is perfectly balanced by the spring so that we can move the teeter freely with almost no force, well it does not matter because this is not the force we need to be concerned with. The force which requires us to input an equivalent amount of work relates to a field which envelops every single part of the teeter not the teeter itself as an object and this teeter field when inducing a current in the coil is intimately tied to the dampening field produced by the coil thus action and reaction are relative to one another. So if the teeter field is not present or does not change then we have no induction and if it does then the coil field must couple to the teeter field and effect the field which induced it --catch 22.
As well if you apply an external current to the coil then you first invoke charge neutralization then self-induction another form of Lenz Law which produces opposition as does a change or aligning of domains to produce a field in the presence of an external field which will also oppose the change. It would seem the task is impossible however we could apply a simple logic here --- "Fat people cannot fly" ---and it is obvious why they cannot fly however by understanding all aspects of the problem of why fat people cannot fly we have produced technology so that they can, the airplane, thus understanding all aspects of a problem and asking the right questions is the first step in finding a solution.
Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2011-08-12, 21:03:55 by allcanadian »


---------------------------
Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #43 on: 2011-08-12, 21:18:56 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-08-12, 18:36:13
To make a motor analogy:   Cogging is not the obstacle to a free energy generator, it's Lenz's law!

Lenz's law is not a problem when the induction is at right angles.

I don't see it much anymore.... when did folks drop the angular relationship between the magnetic field and the loop of wire as part of the math for induction?
   
img  EMdevices
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #44 on: 2011-08-12, 22:31:36 »
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 805
Quote
Lenz's law is not a problem when the induction is at right angles.

WW, what do you mean by "induction at right angles" ?      If it can violate Lenz's law, I'm interested.

EM
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #45 on: 2011-08-12, 22:34:24 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
To respond to a few comments:

AC:
 I have not noticed a dampening effect even with one coil shorted, the rise time and amplitude of the other coil remains the same. With both coils shorted, the action is just as snappy as no coils shorted.

Quote: Let's look at it from another perspective, the attractive force of the teeter to the coil leg is perfectly balanced by the spring so that we can move the teeter freely with almost no force, well it does not matter because this is not the force we need to be concerned with.

Second, the spring and weight is the reactive element, mechanical equivalent of a coil or capacitor. It's purpose is different than what you stated. It is used to store some of the magnetic attractive force in the spring and weight to be used as an aid in opening the gap. It will not do the whole job, however.

The unit I proposed and am building can be first modeled using a spring overcenter mechanism instead of a magnet and coils. This will run as a mechanical oscillator for a few cycles when perturbed. When you replace the overcenter spring with the magnets and coils, you get a bonus that can be used to further kick the system.

Quote: I was never one for show and tell however I can explain the issues you and everyone else must resolve.

Have you resolved these issues? Still would like more show than tell. Alluding to having the answer doesn't cut it.

Respectfully


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #46 on: 2011-08-12, 22:54:27 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: EMdevices on 2011-08-12, 22:31:36
WW, what do you mean by "induction at right angles" ?      If it can violate Lenz's law, I'm interested.

EM

When you have two close inductors on a circuit board and you wish to minimize inductive coupling between them, what do you do?

You align one perpendicular (to a right angle) to the other.

When this is done between an approaching magnet and a coil you aren't really violating Lenz's law. It just doesn't apply as much. The same for the laws of induction.

If you have a conducting loop that encloses an area in the presence of a changing uniform magnetic field current will be induced in that loop.

If that field is perpendicular to the loop you will have maximum induction. Induction decreases as the angle decreases.

There are four ways to create induction:

1. Change the magnitude of the magnetic field with time.
2. Change the area enclosed by the loop with time.
3. Change the angle between the magnetic field and the normal to the loop with time.
4. Any combination of the above.

As a side note: The Rom motor, I believe, uses all of the first three. This is why the coil voltage output is higher than expected by many folks.

In a solid state generator, ideally the only Lenz law action is between the core and the coil.

<EDIT>...

And that doesn't matter to the magnetic field activities of redirection. ION already mentioned that Lenz has no effect on the motion of the pivot bar(at least that is how I understood it).

It shouldn't. Lenz only matters between the core and coil and that action is at 'right angles to' the magnetic flow<?> in the core. So, there will be no effect upon that 'magnetic flow' in the core.
« Last Edit: 2011-08-13, 00:54:59 by WaveWatcher »
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #47 on: 2011-08-12, 23:41:52 »

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 3948
tExB=qr
What if the pivoting bar's connection to the core is varied, but always in contact?  This would vary the inductance of the core by varying it's cross-section, but never have a gap.

Where's a napkin?
   
img  BEP
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #48 on: 2011-08-13, 00:38:42 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: Grumpy on 2011-08-12, 23:41:52
What if the pivoting bar's connection to the core is varied, but always in contact?  This would vary the inductance of the core by varying it's cross-section, but never have a gap.

Where's a napkin?

I think ION was going to start with the basics.

ION,

Did you say you had the magnetic latching part of that device working? i.e. apply a pulse to one coil - the bar connects the middle to one side of the core - the bar then acts like a 'keeper'.

I suppose you could call it a double barrelled and alternating perpetual motion holder   ??? (I think there are still peeps thinking that was magic  ;) )
   
img  ion
Re: Switched Reluctance Solid State Unit Patent « Reply #49 on: 2011-08-13, 01:57:12 »
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 3537
It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-08-13, 00:38:42
I think ION was going to start with the basics.

ION,

Did you say you had the magnetic latching part of that device working? i.e. apply a pulse to one coil - the bar connects the middle to one side of the core - the bar then acts like a 'keeper'.

I suppose you could call it a double barrelled and alternating perpetual motion holder   ??? (I think there are still peeps thinking that was magic  ;) )

Tests thus far were observing the coil output with a scope and forcing the latching from one side to the other by hand. The switching action of the bistable element is very quick and with considerable force. No pulsing of coils yet. I will expand on this later.

It is not a perpetual magnet holder, as the permanent magnet is integral to the device and results in the bistable action.

The coils are output devices only at this point. When the coils are shorted there seems to be no change in the quickness of latching to either side as stated in my earlier post. So where is Mr. Lenz?

I'm taking baby steps here, at some point I will evolve the design further, but it is necessary to fully understand the action of the spring and weight as shown in the earlier drawing (not shown in the photo).

Tomorrow or as time permits, I hope to finish adding the spring and weight part of the design.

For now I am trying to determine if Lenz Law is a visible effect when the coils are shorted or open.




---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2024-11-27, 04:39:05